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by Patrick Arnold
Pat is responsible for launching several major product and innovation in the prohormone industry
through LPJ Research and
Ergopharm, including the first to release androstenedione, 1-AD, 6-OXO, 4-androstenediol, and 19-norandrostenediol. In addition, he is responsible for bringing innovative delivery systems to the prohormone market including HPB cyclodextrin, bioadhesive technology for sustained release, and sustained release sprays.
Publication Date:
June 1998
Dear Patrick,
I read about this new company called
Synthrax Innovations. The owner, Derek Cornelius, is taking credit
for all the supplements I thought you invented. How can he get away
with that? So, now I'm confused. Who REALLY discovered all those
cool supplements like androdiol, norandrodiol and ipriflavone?
That Derek Cornelius is really a character let me tell you. My
first contact with him was an angry e-mail claiming that he
discovered chrysin and that I deserved no credit for it even though
I was the person who compiled a vast amount of research and then
introduced it to Dan Duchaine, Muscle Media etc. I suppose since
the idea existed in his mind or he had run across an article on it
once before he feels I "ripped him off". So it did not take long
for me to realize the guy was a loony.
As far as androstenedione goes, I think not even Derek has the
balls to challenge me on the fact that I discovered it and
introduced the idea. However, Derek has spread the misconception
that HE in fact introduced the idea of norandrostenedione which is
completely false. The first mention in public of norandrostenedione
was by Dan Duchaine in MM2K. And Dan will admit that it was I that
disclosed the facts about norandrostenedione to him for that
article. Credit IS due however to Derek for working to be the first
one to come up with a source for norandrostenedione and to pioneer
its sale at a time when I was unsure what the legal ramifications
would be.
I do not think Derek ever claimed to discover Ipriflavone. A man
in England named Brian Batcheldor does however and perhaps he did
(independently of me) but it was long after I had publicly disclosed
the stuff that he came around with this claim. I first started
doing research on Ipriflavone back in 1992-3. It was then in 1995
that I attempted a partnership with Bruce Kneller and Dan Duchaine
by introducing Ipriflavone to them and claiming that I had the
ability to manufacture it at a reasonable cost. Bruce dropped out
of the deal and then sneakily went ahead to write an article about
the stuff (using the research I revealed to him) in Musclemag
International a couple of months later claiming he had discovered
it. Such is what I have to put up with all the time. Also with
androdiol (4-androstenediol), I don't think anyone disputes the fact
that it is totally my discovery and that I am the first and foremost
manufacturer of this supplement. Derek does seem to trash the stuff
alot though, I suppose since he has not yet been able to find a
reputable source.
The introduction of 5-androstenediol to the marketplace gets all
Derek's credit. It is a common steroid (major DHEA metabolite) that
I had known about before but never considered selling for two
reasons:
1) It appeared to be a controlled substance, and
2) Overwhelming evidence suggests it is highly estrogenic.
Derek can have this one for himself and best of luck to him
because I believe it to be a poor product.
With norandrodiol (19-norandrostenediol) it REALLY gets
interesting. I introduced on m.f.w. that it was to be my next
product. It seems I had pushed some serious buttons with Derek (and
also his new "partner" Bruce Kneller) when I announced this. Derek
and Bruce posted long messages about how I cannot sell this and I
will go to jail and that they had talked to the DEA, etc. Derek
got extremely irate accusing me of somehow (perhaps telepathically)
stealing the idea from him. What I came to find out from Derek's
ex-partners at Mass Quantities (who incidently booted him for being
an asshole) was that Derek had been investigating this compound for
a while and was banking on it to be his "claim to fame". Well
boo-hoo Derek, you didn't speak up fast enough and now I win again.
Not only that but I am manufacturing the stuff and already selling
it while he and others are waiting around for some shipments of the
stuff from China that may arrive sometime in the 21st Century.
Dear Pat,
I used to be a subscriber to Muscle Media,
you know, when it was actually good. But now that Duchaine and
Poliquin are ready to leave, it has no informative value
whatsoever. Now, I'm looking for another cool bodybuilding magazine
to read. What about "Testosterone: Muscle with Attitude"? This is
the venture by T.C. Luoma & Charles Poliquin. Isn't T.C. the reason
Muscle Media rocked in the past?
T.C. added personality to the magazine. The reason why it
"rocked" is because back then it felt free to discuss the drug
issues and to feature more hardcore concepts. It was back when HMB
was introduced that it started to become a blatant EAS advertising
medium and less of an objective source of useful information. Still
it was better than the other magazines (which says very little).
However, when T.C. was replaced and Bill Phillips decided to chase
the sissy market, the bodybuilding community support for the
magazine dropped enormously. I don't know what the future of EAS or
MM is now.
"Testosterone" magazine seems to capture some of the old MM2K
magic; however I don't see any one on their editorial staff (besides
Poliquin) with any real expertise to offer. T.C. certainly is no
expert on nutrition, training, drugs etc. I also get a feeling that
they are pushing their run of the mill supplement line a bit too
much, with far too much exaggeration, misinformation, and hype.
However, there does seem to be hope for them and it is probably too
early to either condemn or praise the magazine completely.
Dear Pat,
What about Peak Training Journal? Do you
think they will overcome their distribution problems of the past?
Also, I heard they're owned by Met-Rx. Is this true?
First of all they are not owned by Met-Rx. The deal is pretty
simple; in exchange for packaging each PEAK issue in a polywrapped
bag with a separate Met-Rx promotional brochure/info. piece, Met-Rx
will take care of distribution of PEAK by including it in their
normal shipments of their supplements to their stores. Met-Rx will
have NO ads in PEAK itself and people have the option to throw out
the Met-Rx brochure and not be bothered by it. This is hardly an
EAS/MM2K type of arrangment.
PEAK is the most promising of the magazines out there because of
their outstanding editorial staff. However, the magazine is quite
crude and raw at this point and time and alot of work is going to
have to go into sprucing it up. I hope editor Steve Colescott is up
to the task.
Dear Pat,
What about your association with Met-Rx and
Scott Connelly? Does this mean you'll stop bashing the nutritional
supplement industry and their outrageous supplement claims?
My association with Met-Rx and Scott Connelly as of today is not
fully established. However it appears that my company (Seymour
Bio-Organics) will be an exclusive manufacturer of the supplements
that will go into their new offshoot supplement company "Substrate
Solutions". I will supply them with supplement ideas and in most
cases also manufacture the supplements themselves for them as an
exclusive vendor.
As far as criticizing stupidity in this industry I couldn't stop
myself if I tried.
Why are you working with Met-Rx? Aren't
they just another big supplement company making bullshit claims for
ineffective products? How exactly are they different from your
"friends" at EAS?
My partner (in Illinois) and I had the ability to come up with
novel and effective supplement ideas and to manufacturer them on a
large scale. What we had no ability to do was to market and
distribute. There was no option but for us to find someone who
could provide this service. Hooking up with Met-Rx was a stroke of
luck.
As far as Met-Rx being just like the other companies making
bullshit claims etc., just let me say I have met with people from
many of the top supplement companies and none of them compared in
intelligence and vision that they have. I know they have had some
silly advertisements for their HMB/Met-Rx stuff in the past.
However of all the choices of supplement marketers and distributors
that my company could have teamed up with they are by far the best
(or least of all evils depending on your perspective).
How are they different from my "friends" at EAS? By about 100
points of I.Q. and the ability to relate to others in a cordial and
easy going manner (as opposed to arrogance and paranoia).
Dear Pat,
You claim androdiol is much more effective
than androstene? Then, why are none of the big supplement companies
selling it? Only the smaller ones like Osmo & GEN? From what I've
read in Muscle Media, it seems Andro 6 is better anyway - with all
those synergistic ingredients in it.
That last part was a joke, right? Anyway the answer to why none
of the other companies are selling it is a mystery to me. I think
it has to do with most companies waiting until a demand has been
established for something before they decide to have the balls to
jump in with it. What happened with androstenedione was Dan
Duchaine wrote about it in MM2K and the demand for OSMO Androstene
50 skyrocketed. That is when all the other companies quickly
jumped on the bandwagon.
The small companies that are selling it now cannot afford to
launch an effective advertising campaign so by and large no one
knows what the stuff is or how it REALLY does kick androstenedione's
ass. I fully anticipate when Substrate Solutions comes out with
their androdiol product, backed up by recent clinical study data
showing phenomenal improvement over androstenedione, that other
companies will be tripping over their feet to get the stuff out
there.
Don't get me started on Andro-6. I have trashed that before in
detail. If anyone is interested they can read what I said at
http://web.archive.org/web/20010121123300/http://www.qfac.com/qfac-dirt/whyandro.html.
Dear Pat,
I read about a new supplement that Poliquin
was talking about in Testosterone.net. It is supposed to be a much
better anti-aromatase supplement than chrysin. What do you think of
this breakthrough supplement?
That supplement is Ipriflavone. Ipriflavone has never been
demonstrated to have anti-aromatase activity. This is a ludicrous
claim on their part. In fact Ipriflavone has been shown repeatedly
to have no noticeable effects on sex hormones.
Dear Patrick,
Are you going to sell ipriflavone? Isn't it
sold as a prescription drug for osteoporosis in Europe? How can you
sell a supplement that requires a script in other countries - isn't
that illegal?
We are not going to sell Ipriflavone right away. As far as it
being prescription in other countries I would imagine it is just OTC
there. Besides it does not matter because it has no drug status in
this country and according to the guidlines of DHSEA it can be sold
as a supplement because it is naturally occuring (though I think
someone is mistaken on that).
Don't these osteoporosis drugs like
Osteofix (Ipriflavone) all work through estrogenic action? How
then, does ipriflavone exert its supposedly anabolic effects?
Ipriflavone does not work through estrogenic action. The
mechanism of its anabolic effects is not known. As far as its
effects on bone it seems to potentiate the positive effects of
estrogen.
Dear Pat,
Everyone on the internet is hyping
norandrostenediol - they say it will really be like a legal version
of deca durabolin. I've heard this "feels like Deca" bullshit
before - when HMB came out, I wasted 200 bucks on the stuff and got
zippo effects! Will norandrodiol be worth it for me - I don't want
to waste my money again!
What internet you have been reading I don't know. If it is mfw
then you are way off base because I have never hyped the stuff in
such a manner. Perhaps you were reading something Derek Cornelius
wrote on another board; that sounds like his style. How can I say
that it will be worth it for you? So many factors come into play.
All I can say is that it will be superior to norandrostenedione as a
nandrolone precursor and if norandrostene worked for you then
norandrodiol may work even better.
How can you claim that androstene and
androdiol increase muscle mass when there is NO research on this?
At least Twinlabs based their claims for their DHEA formula on
hundreds of research studies. And DHEA is not supposed to adversely
affect your own hormonal production like all these testosterone
precursors. Right?
What I can say is that you are mistaken that I ever said these
precursors have been proven to increase muscle mass. I am glad you
ask this because it gives me the opportunity to point out that I
have from day 1 avoided this claim. I have only made statements
concerning the effect of these precursors on increasing
concentrations of active anabolic hormones in the body. There is
convincing evidence that these precursors do that and most would not
argue with that. Knowing this one can deduce that a possible
anabolic effect may be seen when these are consumed. Until this is
proven in a controlled study that claim should be avoided.
Twinlabs quotes only ONE study showing their formula increases
testosterone, and this was done on patients with a disorder in which
they produce NO steroid hormones at all. Their enzymes are clearly
screwed up and geared to metabolize whatever circulates into the
most active compounds at a high rate. Even so the increases were
quite insignificant.
For a comaparison lets look at a study on normal men. One that
uses 32 times the daily recommended dosage (1600mg. vs. 50mg) per
day for 28 days. The researchers stated "serum total testosterone,
free testosterone, and SHBG did not change" (JCEM, 66(1) 57-67).
I would not argue that 50mg. a day of DHEA disrupts the sex
hormone production as Twinlabs claims. If it doesn't work at all
(which the preceeding reference indisputably demonstrates) then why
would you expect it to exhibit a possible side effect?
Dear Pat,
With all the hormonal precursors available,
what is the ideal way to take them? Individually or stacked? With
meals or on an empty stomach? Divided or single daily doses? I'm
confused with all the different advice and different precursors
offered!
It is quite confusing I know. My recommendation from what I know
at this point would be the following. Take only the diol products,
and take them with meals throughout the day. Experiment with doses
to find out what is effective for yourself. At this point I am
skeptical if there is any synergism between the diones and the
diols, and knowing how much more potent the diols are I simply say
spend your money on them
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